The Pyramids and axis shifts

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The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby barry » Wed 06 Jun 2012 3:20 pm

In his article in Review 2011, F Slade Barker points out that the Egyptian pyramids are aligned with the cardinal points. He argues that this must preclude any axis shifts of the Earth since those early times. Doesn’t this rule out any theories of later changes to the Earth’s position relative to the stars?
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Daphne » Mon 18 Jun 2012 2:27 pm

Doesn't Velikovsy argue that the Earth turned 180 degrees so that winter became summer and west became east? The pyramids would still be aligned with the cardinal points because they are square. (the moderator is going to have his work cut out moderating this chitchat!)
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby barry » Sun 24 Jun 2012 4:03 pm

Didn't Velikovsky argue for less complete movements of the earth? Didn't he suggest some locations had shifted in lattitude?
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Phillip » Fri 06 Jul 2012 11:01 am

The strongest evidence for an axial shift as far as the Holocene is concerned might be 3100BC and 6200BC (conventional dates before anyone chews my head off) which precede the Egyptian pyramids. This raises the question - where do you date the Exodus event if that involved axial shift?
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Phillip » Sat 27 Oct 2012 4:36 pm

Arab historian Al-Masudi in the 10th century said the pyramids were built 300 years prior to the flood - when stars wandered confusedly from their courses, and clashed together with tremendous noise ...' which, if the latter inferred a meteoric storm of unusual nature, a bombardment such as envisaged by Moe Mandelkehr in SIS articles, would date the pyramids around 2600BC = 300 years prior to 2300bc. This is not very distant from modern reckoning. Of course, if Al-Masudi was thinking in terms of a much more prominent kind of flooding event and then that might coincide with an axial change of some description - but when might this have happened?
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Laurence » Sat 27 Oct 2012 8:22 pm

In his book "Granting the Seasons" which discusses the changes to the Chinese astronomical system, Nathan Sivin explains that the Mongol emperor ordered a new survey of the cities of China because East was no longer East, West was no longer West...., and although he ordered new instruments to be made the need for the survey was so urgent they got the instruments made for the survey of 777 out of the museum. Clear evidence of an axial shift or crustal slip.

I read this on the same day I received the Rutgar's news flash showing the huge peak in Sulphate Aerosol in Ice cores in about 1280, an amazing co-incidence; and 777 was of course the peak date in Robert Newtons graph showing the rate of rotation of the earth.
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Trevor » Wed 31 Oct 2012 8:26 pm

It would seem that something very interesting happened in 777, but how can we assess this report in isolation? An axial shift or crustal slip would have affected not just the geography of China, but that of every other region of the world. Are there any similar reports of an urgent re-surveying programme taking place in the Byzantine empire or anywhere else? I'm not aware of any. Such an event, involving axial or crustal displacements, would also have destroyed all previous structural alignments, which brings us back to Barry's original point. Could the precise alignment of the sides of the Great Pyramid to north, south, east and west, as well as the rising of the summer-solstice sun over the Heel stone at Stonehenge (as seen from the centre of the site), and the illumination of the internal passage and chambers of Newgrange by the rising winter-solstice sun, etc., be due to nothing more than chance?
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Phillip » Thu 15 Nov 2012 10:23 pm

I personally do not think there has been any axial shifts in the last couple of thousand years - at minimum. If Peter and Lawrence want to say there was axial shift and then the onus is on them to present the evidence. I can't see any.
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Laurence » Thu 13 Dec 2012 10:07 pm

Axis shifts and crustal slip are not identical. In a crustal slip the top layer of the earth moves relative to its core but the axis of rotation of the core need not change relative to the stars so in a crustal slip the Polar Star is unaltered but the latitude and longitude of towns change. If its big enough climate belts change. When in the early eighteenth century AD Dunthorpe pleaded with the Royal Society to send an expedition to measure the latitude and longitude of the ancient observatories they couldn't be bothered in contrast as the French Navy was concerned about reaching harbours safely at about the same time they sent a naval expedition round the Mediterranean to measure the latitude and longitude of all the harbours, which ,of course included the observatory sites at Alexandria, Antioch, Rhodes and Athens. Ptolemy gives the position of many places in his Geographica written about 140AD, they all differ from there current values and an optimisation study showed they corresponded to a change in the north pole on the crust of the earth of about 5 degrees (the result was published in an SIS article). At Cambridge Peter showed that maps of the early 16th Century AD show a offset equator. So Barry there is plenty of evidence for recent crustal slips. In an axial tilt the earth's core changes its axis of rotation and carries the crust with it. None of my evidence needs the axis of rotation of the core to have changed. But a general crustal shift would alter the orientation of the pyramids with or without an axial tilt.
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Re: The Pyramids and axis shifts

Postby Trevor » Sun 16 Dec 2012 5:52 pm

The information presented by Laurence is very interesting, but does it provide any reason to suppose that one or more crustal slips have occurred during the past 2,000 years? Ancient reports giving indications of the latitude and longitude of particular cities would only be meaningful in terms of making comparisons with the situation today if the methodology applied could have given reliable results, and if the system of co-ordinates used was made clear. How much do we know about Ptolemy's system of co-ordinates, and his methodology? The accurate determination of longitude in particular posed problems until the late 18th century, since it requires a knowledge of the precise difference between local time and the corresponding time at a specified reference point. The greatest problem was faced by sailors, since they had no way of accurately determining longitude until the invention of Harrison's marine chronometer in 1773. Sending out surveyors to determine the accurate latitude and longitude of foreign ports earlier in the 18th century would have been pointless, because sailors would have had no way of making use of this information. Even in the early part of the 19th century, few ships were equipped with accurate marine chronometers. Furthermore, there was no international agreement about the reference line for longitude determinations until 1884.

The forces required for a crustal slip to occur are immense. Admiral Flavio Barbiero has argued that they could be supplied by an asteroid impact at an appropriate angle, but that remains controversial. What is certain is that a crustal slippage, particularly one changing the positions of the poles, would have had catastrophic consequences, because the Earth is not a perfect sphere. Therefore, if a crustal slippage involving relocation of the poles had occurred during the past 2,000 years, there should be widespread evidence of catastrophic events, as well as changes of orientation, at this time. Can such a time be identified?
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