Was the Sun formerly a Red Giant star?

The Forum is provided for both SIS members and non-members to discuss topics relevant to the Society's work. It also provides the opportunity for non-members to ask questions about the Society’s work and/or published material.
All posts are moderated before inclusion. No attachments are permitted.

Was the Sun formerly a Red Giant star?

Postby Robertus Maximus » Fri 19 Jan 2018 6:18 pm

Was the Sun formerly a Red Giant star?

In the Electric Star model the appearance of a star to an external observer is determined by the potential of the body of the star and the star’s environment; the relationship between the two determines the nature of the ensuing discharge.

At present, the relationship between Sun and its environment is such that the Sun undergoes an arc discharge, Ralph Juergens offered a number of conditions on why this is so: "…let us tentatively conclude that the photosphere is tufted for one or more of several possible reasons:

"With respect to its discharge, the Sun is too small an anode.

"In the primary plasma of the solar discharge (the solar corona and the solar wind in interplanetary space) the ratio of random- to drift-current densities is too low; the primary plasma is too "cool," the driving potential of the discharge is too great, or both.

"Neutral gas is plentiful within and readily evolved from the body of the Sun, so that its lower atmosphere is of a density sufficient to permit tufting. (In this connection, let us note that too-ready evolution of gas from an anode would in itself be a threat to discharge stability; a phenomenon akin to tufting would be called upon to ionize excess neutral gas and prevent its quenching the discharge.)" (1)

It follows that if one or more of the criteria outlined above were not met then the arc discharge and tufted appearance of the Sun’s photosphere would change.

It is clear that an evolutionary Hertzsprung-Russell type sequence of conventional astronomy is not applicable to the Electric Star model but some generalisations can be made.

In the Electric Star model a star following its formative phase is highly electron deficient.

“Red stars are those stars that cannot satisfy their hunger for electrons from the surrounding plasma. So the star expands the surface area over which it collects electrons by growing a large plasma sheath that becomes the effective anode in space. The growth process is self-limiting because, as the sheath expands, its electric field will grow stronger. Electrons caught up in the field are accelerated to ever-greater energies. Before long, they become energetic enough to excite neutral particles they chance to collide with, and the huge sheath takes on a uniform ‘red anode glow.’ It becomes a red giant star.

“The electric field driving this process will also give rise to a massive flow of positive ions away from the star, or in more familiar words—a prodigious stellar ‘wind.’ Indeed, such mass loss is a characteristic feature of red giants. Standard stellar theory is at a loss to explain this since the star is said to be too ‘cold’ to ‘boil off’ a stellar wind. So when seen in electric terms, instead of being near the end point of its life, a red giant may be a ‘child’ losing sufficient mass and charge to begin the next phase of its existence— on the main sequence.” (2)

A recent study looking into stellar activity cycles found: “It was shown that active stars lie closer to the Galactic plane but inactive stars tend to be farther away from the Galactic plane.” Furthermore: “It was shown that stars with cycles represent about 30 % of the total number of studied stars.”

Of the stars showing cyclical behaviour it was found: “The fact that the peak of the 11-year periodicity is not very sharp shows that the period of the 11-year cycle is not constant: it changes (for 2 centuries of observations) from 10 to 12 years.” And: “Figure 5a confirms the known fact that the period of the main solar activity cycle is about 11-yr in the XIX century and is about 10 yr in the XX century. It is also known that the abnormally long 23-rd cycle of solar activity ended in 2009 and lasted about 12.5 years. We can see all this facts in Figures 5a, b. Thus, it can be argued that the value of a period of the main cycle of solar activity for past 200 years is not constant and varies by 15-20 %.”

“They found that cycles of sun-like stars show systematic changes. The same phenomenon can be observed for the cycles of the Sun.” (3)

Cyclical behaviour is more closely associated with stars “closer to the Galactic plane” and drops off with distance away from the Galactic plane; in the electric model of the galaxy, electrical phenomena closely associated with the Galactic plane are Birkeland currents. We can infer that where we find Birkeland currents we also find stars that display cyclical behaviour.

But, what if in the past the Sun was at a greater distance from the Galactic plane than at present or in a region with different electrical properties? Would there have been cyclical behaviour? Would the Sun have appeared differently to observers?

Ralph Juergens had speculated that the solar discharge was in part due to excessive amounts of dust in the Galactic plane: “If, as suggested, the Sun and other Population I stars exist in an environment of electron scarcity, we must suppose that the discharge currents in the cathode-drop regions of these stars are carried predominantly by positive ions travelling outward.” (4)

Current arriving from the Local Interstellar Medium (LISM) would be ethereal, overwhelmed by the positive ion current travelling outward perhaps only revealing itself in its cyclical nature.

Away from the Galactic plane how would a stellar discharge appear? “Population II stars, existing in regions where dust is not available to immobilize free electrons, may draw intense currents of electrons from their surroundings.” (5)

It may very well be that the Sun is a fairly ‘young’ star however we also have to consider the Sun’s environment as Earl R. Milton reminds us: “If the Sun, as it drifts through the Galaxy, should go into a region which is more electrical than where we are now, it must get smaller physically, that is, its real surface would move inward. But since the electrical processes at surface would intensify, the Sun would respond by building up a greater atmosphere. We would see the Sun change into a super giant star.” (6)

Away from the dust and Birkeland currents found in the Galactic plane the Sun would have almost certainly experienced a different discharge mode. What of any planets orbiting within the “anode glow” of the discharge? Given the plentiful supply of electrons would any ‘gas-giant’ planets orbiting within the anode glow begin to glow themselves? Would Jupiter appear more star-like? Would planetary orbits alter to reflect different changes in potential? Would planetary orbits have migrated as the mode of discharge changed? And what of the Earth orbiting within such a discharge either as an independent body or in close association with a glowing gas-giant planet?

Reliable observations of the Sun only exist for the last couple of hundred years, even so changes in the Sun’s behaviour have been recorded, varying from one cycle to the next as well as experiencing extended minima of weak activity. That the Sun has undergone change in recorded human history is clear- could humans have witnessed even greater changes in prehistory?

The ‘Golden Age’

Up to this point I have approached this proposal from the field of the physical sciences but is it possible that humans evolved and lived during the period that the Sun was a Red Giant star? Is it possible that the various myths of the ‘golden age’ are humankinds’ shared recollections of this period?

Writing about the phenomenon known in mythology as the axis mundi Marinus Anthony van der Sluijs comprehensively recounts the views of the sky witnessed by prehistoric man and recorded as myth:

“On account of the luminosity of one or another such ‘particle’, a common expression is that of an original sun. Whereas some traditions attribute a dim light to this ‘nascent sun’, others aver that it was positioned uncomfortably close to the surface of the Earth, emitting excessive heat. Alternatively, a pair of concurrent luminaries – typically ‘two suns’ or ‘a sun and a moon’ – is envisioned. These are often stated to have created an ‘eternal day’ for an untold period of time, by either remaining stationary or traversing the sky in unbroken succession. They may be presented as undesirable due to their unbearable heat and brightness or the irregularity of their radiance and are often said to have vied among each other for dominance; in familiar applications of the motif, the moon had not yet been differentiated from the sun, but was as bright or brighter than it. Other features of these unsuccessful suns include their confinement to a bag, chest, box or comparable container, identical with the ‘enclosure’ mentioned above; their placement at a cosmic centre; and their diminutive size.” (7)

The duration the axis mundi or the associated description of the sky witnessed by prehistoric man is unknown but Marinus Anthony van der Sluijs describes the termination of this period:

“A popular theme is the final disconnection of the column, sometimes envisioned as its severance in mid-air or from its base. This was associated with an array of natural disasters and other radical changes in the environment: earthquakes; darkness; ravaging winds, fires and floods; the appearance of a monster, often a dragon, snake or bird; a cosmic inversion; the formation of mountains and valleys, islands, rivers and lakes on the surface of the earth, often through the actions of the monster; the near-extermination of the primordial race; the elimination of undesired ‘suns’, typically by arrows or a snare; the dispersion of miscellaneous entities through space; the departure of mythical beings, typically into the sky; and collapse of the ‘old sky’. Confusingly, while various traditions linked the separation of sky and earth with the emergence of the column, as noted, some related it to the column’s demise; an unrestricted inflow of light, ushering in the day; and other events associated with the final chapters in the sequence of creation mythology. There may be no actual contradiction between these accounts if the ‘lifting of the sky’ is regarded as a protracted process, the final stage of which coincided with the disruption of the column.” (8)

Red Sun

From the above varied descriptions it is clear that the picture of the sky witnessed by prehistoric man is at odds with the ‘sky’ we see today. The sky was reported as being “low” what was meant by this description? The sky contained “anomalous luminaries” that eventually were eliminated or dispersed, what where these luminous objects?

In this proposal we can picture the Earth orbiting within the anode glow- the extended tenuous electrical atmosphere- of the Red Giant Sun. To an observer on Earth the anode glow appeared as an all pervading red fog, depth perception was all but impossible- the ‘sky’ appeared and was described as being ‘low’.

Other planets orbiting within the glow (and perhaps outside), when visible, appeared as bright ‘particles’ or ‘unsuccessful suns’, glowing due to the abundance of free electrons- their plasma environment may have been occasionally visible- appearing to contain the ‘suns’ within a ‘bag’ in the same way a comet today is ‘contained’ within its coma. Indeed, orbital relationships may have been such that periodically created an ‘eternal day’.

The electrical potential gradient that pervaded the solar system was quite unlike that of today the outer planets may have been much closer to the Sun than today- in recent years exoplanets described as ‘Hot Jupiters’ have been found in orbits close to their parent star and exoplanets have even been discovered orbiting red giant stars. (9, 10)

This phase of the Sun’s existence may have lasted for countless aeons, it may have even been the norm- a phase during which life evolved and speciated- the final stages being remembered by man as the ‘golden age’.

Creation and Cataclysm

The changing mode of the solar discharge from glow to arc was accompanied by a dramatic rearrangement of the solar system. This transformation has been preserved in stories of the ‘creation’ of a ‘new’ world following a global catastrophe expressed as the “…elimination of undesired ‘suns’, typically by arrows or a snare; the dispersion of miscellaneous entities through space; the departure of mythical beings, typically into the sky…an unrestricted inflow of light, ushering in the day; and …the ‘lifting of the sky’”. (11)

We can speculate that the ‘lifting of the sky’ describes the disappearance of the all-enveloping red anode glow, with the ‘sky’ and diurnal cycle gradually appearing much as we see and experience them today but what of the “…elimination of undesired “suns”…?

Immanuel Velikovsky was derided for his proposal that planets had migrated to or from their present orbits, more than 60 years later mainstream astronomy now considers just such planetary excursions to explain the present pattern of planetary orbits, of course such planetary migrations, usually involving both Jupiter and Saturn, are safely confined to the distant past. (12, 13)

Can we picture Jupiter and Saturn adjusting to the new solar system potential by drifting farther from the Sun? The two may have interacted transferring charge accelerating their exodus from their previous orbits. On their journey the two would have expelled positively charged material from their depths in an effort to adjust to the potential of their new respective environments. Comets and asteroids would be the result. (14) Electrical interactions would have been interpreted as ‘arrows’, such interactions if taking the form of a lightning discharge would be able to concentrate any available dust and form solid bodies in situ- meteorites and bolides would form instantly.

It has long been known that Saturn would float in a bathtub filled with water- provided you could find a bathtub big enough! More recently it has been discovered that something is not quite right at Jupiter- the planet’s core seems to be huge and “fuzzy”. (15) If we assume gravity to be an electrical phenomenon then perhaps we can posit an explanation for these ‘anomalous’ observations- both planets are still electron deficient and possess a low internal polarisation. (16) This would result in our estimates of the densities and composition of both planets to be wide of the mark. Moreover, Saturn’s rings may be considered to be the result of an expulsion of matter from the planet much in the same way that the Sun emits a positive current, the solar wind, as it too adjusts to its new electrical environment.

The ‘new’ solar system

Today, the planets all appear to be frantically sourcing electrons- developing magnetospheres to intercept as many electrons as possible from their central star that has a voracious appetite for electrons. The picture of the solar system that presents itself is one of ‘recent’ global change with many of its individual components still adjusting to the new global electrical environment, the Sun now at the mercy of galactic Birkeland currents, the ‘golden age’ when the Sun was a Red Giant star but a distant memory.


1 Juergens. Ralph. E. 1979. The Photosphere: Is It The Top Or The Bottom Of The Phenomenon We Call The Sun. Kronos Vol. 4 No 4.
2 http://www.holoscience.com/wp/twinkle-twinkle-electric-star/?article=x49g6gsf
3 https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.08578
4 Juergens. Ralph. E. 1983. Electric Discharge as the Source of Solar Radiant Energy (Concluded). Kronos Vol. 8 No 2.
5 Ibid.
6 Milton. Earl. R. 1981. Electric Stars in a Gravity-Less Electrified Cosmos. C&C Review 1980/81: 1
7 van der Sluijs. Marinus. A. 2016. A Geomagnetic Approach to Traditions of Axes Mundi (Part 1). C&C Review 2016: 2
8 Ibid.
9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Jupiter
10 https://www.astrobio.net/meteoritescomets-and-asteroids/planet-found-orbiting-red-giant/
11 van der Sluijs. Marinus. A. 2016. op. cit. (7)
12 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180109141918.htm
13 https://phys.org/news/2017-12-mars-earth-early-neighbors.html
14 http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/J/Jupiter-family+Comets
15 https://www.space.com/39348-juno-jupiter-mission-planet-revelations.html
16 http://www.holoscience.com/wp/electric-gravity-in-an-electric-universe/
Robertus Maximus
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun 05 Oct 2014 5:08 pm

Return to SIS Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests